davidk
Junior Member
Posts: 27
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Post by davidk on Apr 3, 2024 0:02:03 GMT
As background to the comments below, I tutored a U3A class in the use of CVS (annual versions) in making movies for about 6 years, after being a student in the same class for 4 years. So when I was offered participation in the beta program I concentrated on the aspects of the software that new or less experienced users would face; installation, configuration, set-up, how to use, getting results. My classes focussed on demonstrating/applying program features (eg pan & zoom, tracking, titles, painting creator etc, generally one such feature per class session) to creation of a term project each student was tasked to produce.
For years I have seen posts by various knowlegable users about Vegas in these forums, generally what a good NLE it is, for low cost etc. The comparison with CVS was generally 'vegas is better' in tone. So when I was offered Vegas 19 (outdated but only just) for a ridiculous price I took it. This is my commentary on it vs CVS, just a starting experience: 1. installation - custom install location allowed, took it. Otherwise it was default, went without issues. Installed the audio mixer with the video program. 2. startup from screen icon - excessively long: for over 10 sec there's just no indication of any response; leave it long enough and the splash screen appears, a progress bar shows and the main work space screen appears. Much longer to give a user any indication of response compared to CVS; the first time I actually aborted thinking it had jammed. 3. default installs: puts everything on the C drive, but not all in the same place. If you use a custom install, after the install you will have to go over it with a fine tooth comb to find and change the location of all the various stores, like pre-rendered, working etc, because they are all in the C drive, even if the main program is located elsewhere. The preferences panel only covers some of it. That happens in CVS also, but nowhere near the same extent. 4. A really busy work space: much busier (many more controls crammed into the available workspace, and to do that they are all smaller) than CVS. Even on a 1920x1080 screen, they look small and cramped. What they would look like on a smaller screen beggars the imagination. The only NLE similar I have experienced is da Vinci Resolve which I abandoned in short order because it was simply too hard to use. 5. Screen layout: the timeline equivalent has no apparent tracks or controls for them. Loading a video or audio goes into that space. For those familiar with the use of multiple concurrent tracks for audio overlays, text music etc used in several NLE's (CVS, Power Director are 2 others I own) this specific feature is a major turnoff. I guess there must be a way to use it in the "traditional" style but it's certainly not obvious nor is there any apparent means of finding out. 6. How to use. A user guide just tells you what the controls are, not how to use them. CVS is like that too. There just isn't any supplied with the vegas software. You Tube probably has some, but I haven't explored that, because by now I was regretting spending even the miserly amount I did on the package.
Since installation I have been pestered by magix pop-ups on every PC start to upgrade either video program or the audio mixer, the most recent one siezing control of the browser with no cancel X. That one I had to close the browser to get rid of. It's getting getting very annoying.
My opinion to date is that Vegas may be efficient and fast but a pest to use, not for the beginner or even a moderately experienced user.
Generally, CVS has the reputation of being the easiest video editor to use, and I have not experienced another NLE that comes close. Cyberlink's Power director would be 2nd choice if a user felt a need to change editors.
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Post by rickmen on Apr 3, 2024 5:43:09 GMT
Generally, CVS has the reputation of being the easiest video editor to use, and I have not experienced another NLE that comes close. Cyberlink's Power director would be 2nd choice if a user felt a need to change editors.
Awhile back I started to get "PowerDirector" "How to" clips popping up on my YouTube. I decided to explore them and what I noticed was that PD had numerous similarities to VS and I thought that maybe my VS skills/knowledge might be easily transferable across to PD.
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Post by robertoz on Apr 3, 2024 6:09:07 GMT
There is no doubt, that in the early days,PowerDirector was by far the easiest NLE to use, I started with PD4, was a Beta tester for PD6,7,8 & 9, also made a few tutorials direct for CyberLink. I moved on from CyberLink when Beta testing PD9, just would not install correctly, which is when I started with VSX4, which I found to be very similar to PD. But CyberLink have added more & more features to PD, so it has now become too complicated and I would need to spend a lot of time relearning the program which I am not prepared to do, quite happy with VS, Vegas Pro 21 & Magix Movie Studio 2024 which are more than adequate for my needs.
I also have 9 versions of Adobe Premiere Elements, Adobe Premiere Pro 5.5, After Effects and many other Adobe products, none of which I bother to install anymore
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Post by Candive on Apr 4, 2024 6:22:00 GMT
davidk , I agree, Power Director would be an alternative to Videostudio. In fact, I always considered it to be the direct rival to Vidoestudio. Power Director does push its subscription services but that seems to be the trend today. It does offer a perpetual license so it accommodates everyone. The subscriptions are reasonably priced and if you upgraded VS every year then in fact you were on a pseudo-subscription basis anyway. Personally I only upgraded VS every three years so I was more inclined towards the perpetual offering but I then started subscribing to Backlot Studio which is subscription based. So one could argue that I too was on a subscription in reality. The one smart thing Cyberlink (Power Director) did which Corel decided to miss out on was to develop an Apple version for their software. A lot of people, frustrated with Micorsoft, moved to Apple leaving the geeks and gamers to play on Windows. This market of casual users, along with content creators moved to Apple because of the fantastic hardware, software and Support. It was this market segment that needed an easy to learn video editor and Power Director fits the bill. Videostudio also fit that bill but Corel decided not to invest the money to build an Apple version - so here we are.... Another editor which has the same look and feel as VS is Magix Movie Studio which I am currently trialing because they had a fantastic upgrade offer for only $30 which included Prodad Vitascene V5. VS2023 came with Vitascene V4 but it didn't work on my computer. V5 does, so I'm happy. As for Vegas 19, I also took advantage of the bundle offering but I don't regret it. It is a different editor and there is a learning curve. Magix is pouring its resources into Vegas to make it a competing professional editor because it too is in financial difficulty. They are targeting the creator market which is the appropriate market for this software except for one important hurdle; a lot of creators use or have moved to Apple.
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tonyp
Full Member
Posts: 58
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Post by tonyp on Apr 4, 2024 12:49:50 GMT
Corel dropped the ball in so many ways. Does anyone here know that there was an iPad Pinnacle Studio app? It was quite popular. What Corel failed to do is make a Pinnacle Apple editor. We all now see how short sighted they were. Or... they just didn't really care. When Humble Bundle offered Vegas Edit 14 and some other "stuff" for $25, I bought it. For years, I've ignored totally Vegas because the screenshots I've seen of the software, it looked confusing and butt ugly. I installed and fumbled my way around. Yes, the interface can look confusing, but it really isn't. It's just that everything is right there in front of you. It's like first driving a car. Sure, all the buttons, knobs and instrumentation does look confusing. But to drive the car, you don't need to look at everything. And as you get comfortable with driving, you get more comfortable looking and trying other things you see, to where you do not think about turning on the heat or a/c. Turning up or down the volume of the radio. After two weeks of using VP14 Edit, I upgraded to VP15 Suite. To edit in Vegas is easy. To add a transition is easy. To export is easy, although there are a ton of options. To Import is easy. What Vegas does offer is more options. Much much more. But to do a simple project, I can edit faster on the Vegas timeline than VS, PS, Magix, and Resolve. Where the difference between the editors are, in more consumer based (MMS, VS, PD) are templates and other automated features (Split Screen Editor for one). Also, the title editors seems to be better too. But then, the control of what you do is far greater in Vegas. Color grading, compositing, and the list continues to grow with each new version of it. Is it for everyone? Yes and no. Yes, because you can grow and do more. No, if you feel it is too challenging or overbuilt for what you need. This is a VIDEO of what VP21 brings to the editing table. You can watch TUTORIALS from Vegas and other content creators. I remember a friend of mine who lives in Belgium who had done some amazing work with PS. I mean amazing. One day, he was working on a corporate video and was having problems with the green screen inside of PS. He also tried NBFX Chroma Pro. Still not what he wanted. He asked me what could I do with it in Vegas. I've never ever done any green screen work, ever. In 2 minutes, I sent him a screenshot of what I did. He was blown away. He had the Humble VP18 on his computer, but never looked at it. We had an hour sessions over Google Meet, and he was up and running, and never looked back. Yes, he still had questions that were easily answered, but his editing went to the the level he wanted it to that neither PS/VS could do. He has since moved to Resolve Studio, struggling with it, but he likes the mental challenge. I also have Resolve Studio, and it's a great editor, but I can do timeline editing faster in Vegas. I don't have to switch to another "page" to color grade or composite. And forget about learning nodes in Fusion. Oh, and there are all those lovely plugins. Wow. And they work in both Vegas and Resolve. Boris FX Continuum Complete 2024, Spicemaster Pro 3, NBFX TotalFX 360, Sapphire Units, Ignite Pro 5, Vitascene V5 Pro (thanks Magix!), Sonicfire Pro 6, and some Vegas specific plugins such as Mercalli V5 Suite, Happy Otter Scripts which has some free ones, and Vegasaur. No, I don't use everything. These are tools in an editing tool chest that are great to have. And I buy when things are on sale. Like BorisFX on Black Friday, etc..
Yeah, I am happy with Vegas Post 21 365, but I also have Davinci Resolve Studio 18.6 with Speed Editor, Fusion 18, Video Pro X14, Magix Movie Studio 2024 Suite, Pinnacle Studio 26 Ultimate, Videostudio Pro 2023 Ultimate, and Hitfilm Pro 2021.3.
Oh, as for Mac... I am not aware of people leaving Windows for it. I'm sure some are, but overall, look at the market share. But one thing is for sure, Avid, Premiere, Resolve all work on the Mac.
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davidk
Junior Member
Posts: 27
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Post by davidk on Apr 4, 2024 23:28:01 GMT
I anticipated getting responses from the Vegas fans, and I did. Most of them informative, along the lines of once you get used to it, it's great. Getting used to it and the complicated nature of the workspace are the issues. I think my conclusion of "not for new or even moderately experienced users" stands. CVS gets around the complications of function on workspace with tabs for various major and minor functions, showing only the function relative to need and thus the workspace does not look cramped or cluttered.
Digression, but related. The comments re Apple are interesting. Apple has a much more corporately restrictive software and hardware regime for its machines than windows has. And even now, it has barely 12-15% of market share mainly in education and graphic design. You can't get add-on 3rd party hardware for an apple, and any software packages have to meet Apple's criteria. At one time, Apple had shrunk to 2-3% market share and looked at death's door. Steve Jobs brought it back, largely I suspect with the pain it went thru converting the hardware and software from the power PC architecture (software for this completely incompatible with x86) to Intel x86, but also mainly with iphones, with a companion pull effect on ipads etc Nevertheless, for a business looking to invest in a software product, market share of the essential base (hardware + OS) is a major determining factor, and there's Unix and others in the mix too. Windows is much 'looser' in it's approach, and thus most vendors preference for windows: not only is the market larger, but the restrictions are easier. Taking all this together and it's easy to see why vendors would avoid Apple, at least initially, and probably follow-on as well: MS made an Apple version of the Office suite, updated it rarely and at this point largely I think that also is dead.
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tonyp
Full Member
Posts: 58
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Post by tonyp on Apr 5, 2024 6:54:24 GMT
Video editing software comes down to what someone wants to do. For some, compositing is a must. Others, optional plugins to get the desire effects. And still others, acceptance of different camera files such as BRAW or RED. For "me", looking at consumer editing software and it's features, I can see the appeal of the simplicity of it. It's not meant to be "professional" software and to meet the needs of those it is marketed to. But there are others who want to have the ability to do "more". And with that, comes more complexity. That's all. Vegas has tabs. Everything is "drag and drop", include effects and transitions from a tab that is right on the window. Does it look cluttered? I thought so for a along time. Then I used it. Of course there are the many settings one has to go through. That alone can scare people off. But again, Vegas and other editing software in the upper end, open the door for greater creativity and the ability to do more.
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asik1
Junior Member
Posts: 20
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Post by asik1 on Apr 8, 2024 6:39:56 GMT
David, we all know that not a single NLE is the best. When I looked to replace VS few years ago I tested PD and VMS and other I don't recall. I went to VMS and then to Vegas because it is more accurate sound track and TL zoom. I never liked VS just 6 TL zoom options. There are tons of VP YT tutorials. Basically what worked in VP10 still ok in VP19 and on. Vegas gives the user more options and less built in "pres and voila" . VP user forum is very very helpful. A manual can't tell you "how to do .... " but "this tool/option is...." and the user need to explore how the tool get him something. One of my main issue at the beginning was the different terminology, in VP there isn't a "video clip" but an "event", there are switches,envelopes,extensions,scripts....headache, slowly I learn and forgot (and search) what/where many do. But if the GUI is too small for you to read/use than that's your deal breaker no mater how powerful the software.I use 2k 27 screen at about 50-60 away. * VP19 takes 6-7 sec from click to layout here, ** www.vegascreativesoftware.info/us/vegas-pro-forum/ and developers do participate from time to time. ***It's all down to the type of work
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Post by Candive on Apr 8, 2024 15:54:04 GMT
I went to VMS and then to Vegas because it is more accurate sound track and TL zoom. I never liked VS just 6 TL zoom options. Hi asik1 , I'm not sure what you mean by TL zoom; Timeline zoom in the single and multi-trim windows? Title zoom?
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tonyp
Full Member
Posts: 58
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Post by tonyp on Apr 8, 2024 16:19:07 GMT
"TL" timeline zoom. You can use your mouse wheel to scroll the zoom on the timeline.
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zaphodikus
Junior Member
waiting for Christmas to come
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Post by zaphodikus on Apr 8, 2024 17:02:44 GMT
I'm looking at DaVinci (free), a large learning curve, but the annoying bugs in CVS and the "why on earth does it?" every time I try go beyond drag and drop is starting to grind me and I'm thinking if I had saved the £300 odd over the years I could actually have just bought the BlackMagic editor license on day one and learned to use that instead eventually. I don't produce that much, maybe one clip a month, but the frustration with Corel just being irregular even if easy, are not worth it when I try do complicated things. I still wonder what the AllUdo marketing team are thinking, I really do. But I'll eventually pay for the BlackMagic license if I can learn just enough to get back up to my current level with Corel first. Yes I tried Hitfilm Express, but the microtransactions are just too tempting, even if it is easier than Davinci, not keen to be tempted by plugins all of the time.
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tonyp
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Post by tonyp on Apr 8, 2024 17:32:38 GMT
zaphodikus, yes, Resolve has a huge learning curve. Huge. And it also requires higher end computer to enjoy the features in the Studio version. I've had Resolve Studio for several years now. I'd try the free version before considering spending the money for the Studio. As for your issues with VS, I can't say it's been like that for me for the most part. And while you think Resolve will be better, it crashes too. And if you have MTS2 files, it won't play them.
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Post by Candive on Apr 8, 2024 17:57:34 GMT
Hi tonyp , asik1 indicated that he doesn't like VS 6 TL zoom options. What 6 options? zaphodikus , sorry to hear you are having issues with VS. My experience has been pretty good. Some of the issues are related to the hardware and I noticed that you haven't listed the hardware you are using for your editing in your signature. See mine listed below. If you are experiencing bugs or consistent crashes please share your experience on this forum and we may be able to help you resolve your issue. As for Davinci Resolve, you can certainly download and use the free version but as tonyp says, there is a learning curve and you need a high spec machine to efficiently run it. I trialed it, and its still on my computer but I found I needed to transcode a lot of videos I shot for DR to read them and I concluded the software was overkill for my personal needs.
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asik1
Junior Member
Posts: 20
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Post by asik1 on Apr 9, 2024 12:54:05 GMT
Candive, I dont have VS installed, what I ment in TL zoom is the jump of the "poor" wave display 1frame, 5frames, 1 sec .... etc if I recall. Vegas has much better wave disply and much smoother TL zoom. zaphodikus , take alook at kdenlive.org/en/ or www.shotcut.org/
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Post by Candive on Apr 9, 2024 18:07:01 GMT
Hi asik1 , Thanks for responding. Now I understand. A picture is worth a 1000 words.
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